Tulpa.info - tulpa-discussion

Was this something you are interested in @Rusty ? At this point the line between personality forcing and characterization blur

Hello! I am your example of what not to do :D

6:30 PM

Look upon my failures and do not repeat them!

I wasn't trying to shame you I thought you liked talking about personality forcing ;_;

Oh I do, I like talking about it because I managed to go on the extreme of both ends

Fair enough lol

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I do need to give a little background on how my system came to be. I used to do a ton of roleplaying, which can just be a form of forcing. Honestly most writers probably have thoughtforms alike from tulpas. I spent so much time thinking about those characters that by the time I realized that they no longer behaved like a character i had control over they were already pretty much fully developed tulpas able to react to things around us without me prompting them in any way. When you make a character you are meant to be giving a detailed personality to them but when you are making a tulpa that strictness will cause much more harm. Having such a firm idea of how a tulpa should act will result in them being unable to deviate from it. Even if you encourage deviation after the fact, doing so could cause a lot of distress. This is because that made up personality is their entire sense of self and moving out of it feels like they are breaking apart. But no human being is like that, you aren't a set of traits and inconsistency in how you feel or react to things is normal. Having no personality forcing will make you feel like you are screaming into a void and you can't pick out anything coming back from it because you have no idea what you are trying to create. But having too much of it will create a person who feels like they are trapped in a tight box. They are essentially a very well developed character you've propped up onto a pedestal and called it a tulpa. When creating a personality for a tulpa it should only be a loose guide, a general 'vibe' of the tulpa. Only give positive traits but never ignore negative traits that come naturally. A person is not only positive traits, a relationship is not always smooth. Still, you should not encourage or accept a negative trait that causes genuine distress.

7:04 PM

A balance between positive and negative traits should always be the goal. Mostly negative traits can cause a tulpa to not be able to actually form a relationship with you or anyone else. They may struggle to accept feeling any positive emotion because feeling terrible is part of their core traits that makes them feel like them. Mostly positive traits can cause a tulpa to feel like they aren't allowed to be upset and feel guilty whenever they don't uphold their unrealistic constantly positive personality. No person is perfect, but yet when they aren't able to be exactly that they feel like they aren't themselves anymore.

a tricky situation to avoid (and this applies to anyone, not just tulpas!) is believing that you are a particular trait or emotion (edited)

7:29 PM

it's too easy to feel like you're not yourself (and get upset/confused) if you do that... a person is much more complicated than just one trait or emotion (edited)

Rusty

I do need to give a little background on how my system came to be. I used to do a ton of roleplaying, which can just be a form of forcing. Honestly most writers probably have thoughtforms alike from tulpas. I spent so much time thinking about those characters that by the time I realized that they no longer behaved like a character i had control over they were already pretty much fully developed tulpas able to react to things around us without me prompting them in any way. When you make a character you are meant to be giving a detailed personality to them but when you are making a tulpa that strictness will cause much more harm. Having such a firm idea of how a tulpa should act will result in them being unable to deviate from it. Even if you encourage deviation after the fact, doing so could cause a lot of distress. This is because that made up personality is their entire sense of self and moving out of it feels like they are breaking apart. But no human being is like that, you aren't a set of traits and inconsistency in how you feel or react to things is normal. Having no personality forcing will make you feel like you are screaming into a void and you can't pick out anything coming back from it because you have no idea what you are trying to create. But having too much of it will create a person who feels like they are trapped in a tight box. They are essentially a very well developed character you've propped up onto a pedestal and called it a tulpa. When creating a personality for a tulpa it should only be a loose guide, a general 'vibe' of the tulpa. Only give positive traits but never ignore negative traits that come naturally. A person is not only positive traits, a relationship is not always smooth. Still, you should not encourage or accept a negative trait that causes genuine distress.

That's pretty much exactly what happened to me. A longform (year+) tabletop roleplay character ended up being my first tulpa. I got used to talking in character for her during our campaign sessions and over time I started having conversations naturally with her when my brain was at rest. I can still clearly rememeber the first time we talked, and the first time I saw her overlayed. But it didn't happen quickly, and it wasn't an intention for me. I think I simply had such a strong connection with the character that over time that idea, that concept of the character in my mind started talking back.

8:36 PM

My advice would be that developing habits to talk to them helped me a lot with my tulpa development. Even if it is pupeteering, it still helps them grow and teaches them to react. If you have any concept of phantom sense, practicing visualization of them touching your skin (hugs, light brushes, etc.) can help. Method act things with them, if you want to hug them imagine you are while hugging the air. It may seem silly at first, but it semed to help my first tulpa a lot. (edited)

time to improve wiki this is the first thing i came across when i clicked random page

Wow...

That is a horrible definition

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About to go to bed again but I'll answer the questions! I do agree with your plan for 4 30 minute sessions, though, that is much more practical :) 1. If you've ever imagined talking with a friend in your head, and you imagined what they might say, it is similar in category to that, but significantly more distinct. It feels like another "self-voice" in your head, in the same way you talk, but "coming from a different spot." Understandably, the language for this kind of stuff is very imprecise--but an analogy to a known value, like imagining an argument in the shower, that kind of thing, is an effective way to communicate what it's like. 2. That comes from consistency, and spreading forcing out through the day, so you're already doing part of it! I am very able to interrupt/speak up without prompting when blank is consistently forcing throughout the day in small sessions-- it comes and goes depending almost entirely on that, + sleep/stress levels. Another thing that helps is "passive forcing," which is just doing what you do in your current 2-hour/4x30 minute sessions, but while you're doing something else. "I'm gonna play this video game, but narrate what I'm thinking about to my tulpa," "I'm gonna do work, but talk about what I do and what I like/dislike here with my tulpa," that kind of thing.

i agree on point 1 blanka made here. when kaybee talks to me it still comes from my mind but there's something about the mental intonation that differs from what 'my' usual internal dialogue comes from, enough for me to instantly recognise it as their 'voice'.

5:42 AM

and there have even been a handful of times where she's fronting and feels... disconnected? from the voice that the body has. not necessarily dysphoric but not seeing it as their own voice.

you cant parrot without doing it deliberately

8:05 AM

deliberately is the key word here

8:05 AM

you would know you are doing it without any doubt

8:06 AM

your tulpa's responses feel like your own when you start out, so it sounds like you are actually talking to your tulpa and they are responding

8:09 AM

it wont be like that forever, you start to automatically recognise their responses from yours over time, and it doesnt necessarily take long for that to start happening

i got an answer the first day without realizing, the next day i realized and kept getting answers, the third morning she was fully there and i felt it when i woke up

8:22 AM

there isnt always a barrier

8:24 AM

the way a tulpa gets to grow is when you assume its a separate thing and not your own thoughts, and training your brain to keep interpreting it as separate

8:25 AM

you're essentially retraining your mind to start thinking from a separate point of view that is distinct from your existing one

8:26 AM

to the point it might as well be "someone" else

8:29 AM

its expected because the tulpa kinda of separates itself from your own thoughts, if it makes sense

8:30 AM

you both know the exact same things and have the same experiences

8:30 AM

so naturally you agree on almost everything and get along "too well"

8:32 AM

you will get those later, its a process

8:32 AM

youre on your third day

8:34 AM

i know how it feels

8:34 AM

ironically most of my doubts came after a couple of months, and not right when i started

8:35 AM

why is it fucked?

8:35 AM

it can be a lot to handle

8:37 AM

there is some room to kind of steer what your tulpa becomes and it doesnt mean you're coercing them to become something they dont want to be, if you discuss it with her

8:38 AM

thats exactly how i felt after a few days too

8:38 AM

remember that you have all the time you need in the world

8:39 AM

she wont disappear if you hit the brakes a little bit

8:39 AM

and im sure she understands its a lot to handle

8:40 AM

the thing about tulpamancy is also that she can be as separate or same as you as you want

8:41 AM

it doesnt have to be some thing explained in a guide

8:42 AM

the feeling of a "separate person" became a bit too much for me, so we decided to kind of "co-op" rather than "live as two", and we think we're the same deep down but still separate

8:42 AM

we still have two completely distinct voices and feelings but the philosophy so to say is like that

8:43 AM

we also slept very bad during the first days because of daylight savings and everything happening so fast, and we switched by accident too

8:44 AM

but i think thats because shes very energetic

8:45 AM

you can just keep talking about whatever you want

8:45 AM

theres no steps to go through and complete in a certain order and time

8:46 AM

that sounds like something you could naturally continue to try to get to

8:47 AM

yes

8:47 AM

basically just make it a habit to talk to each other throughout the day

8:47 AM

and settle in to some rythm (edited)

8:48 AM

whatever works for you

8:49 AM

you can just ask random things

8:49 AM

even silly things

8:50 AM

i think the strict practice about "passive forcing" and "active forcing" is a bit silly, when the two of them is just you two talking to each other

2

8:51 AM

you can do it in any form you can imagine

8:51 AM

"what do you think about this person", something funny happens and you make a comment about it etc

8:57 AM

also the thing about early tulpa responses and conversations is that they might also just sound like made up things or random thoughts and answers or things that make no sense when you think about it more, but thats also expected

8:58 AM

but those also evolve over time and form into a cohesive thing

9:00 AM

its like a baby tulpa you can guide into a person and they will start "walking" on their own eventually

9:02 AM

yeah its weird realizing how it works and feels like

9:03 AM

in the early days its also a good time to pick a separate sounding voice so it sticks much easier

9:03 AM

so its not just two voices that sound like you talking

9:03 AM

even if you can tell them apart

9:04 AM

im sure they get much snappier

9:05 AM

to the point you dont need to finish sentences in your head

9:05 AM

but its nicer when you do finish and its a lot more like a conversation then telepathy lol

9:05 AM

thats what it really is, and thats the speed you can go at

9:06 AM

well can you even call it tele when its in the same brain

9:09 AM

you can just talk inside your head to them too if you dont get to talk out loud

9:10 AM

or you can both talk out loud lookingupsmile

9:10 AM

you just let whatever they respond with blurt out without thinking too much

9:11 AM

9:12 AM

yeah

9:12 AM

its a bit harder if you dont live alone

9:13 AM

maybe you could try getting used to both talking out loud and in your head

9:13 AM

its fun to talk about dumb stuff when shopping and stuff

9:14 AM

well now you have goals lookingupsmile

9:16 AM

eventually theres no need for any sessions when you just talk whenever you feel like once you get to a comfortable speed

aapeli 🟣🥫🥔 ae

i think the strict practice about "passive forcing" and "active forcing" is a bit silly, when the two of them is just you two talking to each other

there isn't really a distinction in category between active/passive forcing--it's just what context you're doing the same thing in

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Your tulpa is a few days old, if they don't sound like an echo chamber replying back I would be surprised. It takes time to develop separation I wonder if an exploration approach would help. Instead of asking for their opinions on stuff like, "what's your favorite color", why not show them examples of different colors and see how they react?

1

A long kiss goodnight

Your tulpa is a few days old, if they don't sound like an echo chamber replying back I would be surprised. It takes time to develop separation I wonder if an exploration approach would help. Instead of asking for their opinions on stuff like, "what's your favorite color", why not show them examples of different colors and see how they react?

this is good advice--tulpas need feedback from the outside world in order to develop

6:36 PM

I know my opinions on a lot of things are lacking in any detail because all I have are fuzzy secondhand memories

6:37 PM

when I switched in and listened to music for the first time (for real), though, I was able to say "holy shit, I can actually understand what's special about this"

6:38 PM

same with video games, which are a lot of fun--but now I have more than the secondhand emotions and experiences they inspire, I have detailed memories of playing through the campaign of Doom Eternal (which I'm not done yet, but I do have a better understanding of what I like and dislike now)

New tulpas have interesting reactions when spoken to by other people generally speaking

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The downside to having a strict checklist like this is vocality and other skills are on a scale. Without rejecting your checklist, perhaps think of skills as different levels? It seems you have already achieved level 1 vocality, your tulpa is speaking to you in mind voice. Now it's just a matter of working to achieve level 2- perhaps your tulpa has a favorite topic they like to talk about. I don't know what level your headmate feeling separate from you, these are subjective anyway and I think it should be up to you to decide what the different levels are

6:41 PM

Actually, come to think of it, making a milestone list like this would be really helpful as a resource

What checklist? Can anybody recap the conversation? I think a checklist could benefit us, too

Deleted User

What checklist? Can anybody recap the conversation? I think a checklist could benefit us, too

they were asking for a checklist, and the response was "pick what you want to do, there's no set requirements/steps" (edited)

blanka

they were asking for a checklist, and the response was "pick what you want to do, there's no set requirements/steps" (edited)

Thanks for the answer. I might make a checklist. Sounds fun!

Deleted User

Thanks for the answer. I might make a checklist. Sounds fun!

https://tenor.com/bnSGJ.gif

6:50 PM

(I swear this is on-topic)

Hm?

reaction gif in a discussion channel

I was hoping you would explain how it's on-topic

there is so much celebral activity happening in the context of ravenmoor’s tulpamanvy practice guess what other things are celebral oh right overthinking and doubt